How to Succeed in Restaurant Franchise | Top Franchise Strategies from Hans im Glück's Director

Welcome to another episode of the Food Service Growth Show! Today, we've got something special for you as we sit down with Carl Jacobs, CEO of Apicbase, and Michael Oettl, Franchise Director of Hans im Glück. They're here to spill the beans on how to succeed in the restaurant franchise business. 

With 95 outlets across Germany, Austria, and Switzerland, Hans im Glück is an industry giant, and Michael Oettl, with his background as a trained chef, brings a wealth of expertise to the discussion.

In this episode, we're unlocking the secrets to success in the restaurant franchise business by exploring the strategies employed by Hans im Glück. Join us as we navigate through the world of franchise management, strategies, and marketing.

Carl and Michael will talk about...
✅ How Hans im Glück trains and retains the best talent
✅ The process of selecting the right franchise partners
✅ Understanding the calculations behind the menu prices
✅ What defines the ideal restaurant partner
✅ How to succeed in a franchise business?
✅ What do you need to join Hans im Glück franchisee?
✅ What drives success in a restaurant franchise business?
✅ How is the future of hospitality looking?

One of the key topics up for discussion is how Hans im Glück effectively trains and retains top-tier hospitality talent. Oettl, with his background as a trained chef, sheds light on the methodologies employed by his franchise to ensure a consistently high level of service across all outlets. 

Choosing the right franchise partners is a make-or-break decision for any restaurant brand. Michael will walk you through the process employed by Hans im Glück in selecting partners who align with their vision and values. Gain insights into the criteria that define the ideal restaurant partner and how this careful selection process plays a pivotal role in the brand's overall success.

Ever wondered about the complex calculations behind menu prices? Michael will provide a comprehensive understanding of how pricing strategies contribute to the profitability of a restaurant franchise. 

The discussion will also touch upon the prerequisites for joining the Hans im Glück franchise. If you've ever pondered on what it takes to become a franchisee, this episode has you covered. Uncover the criteria, cost, expectations, and opportunities that come with joining the Hans im Glück family.

The broader question of how to succeed in a franchise business will be thoroughly explored. From strategic planning to effective execution, Michael will share his insights on what it takes to thrive in the competitive landscape of restaurant franchising. 

Don't forget to like, share and subscribe to our channel. The Food Service Growth Show has insightful episodes lined up, so stay tuned for more expert interviews, industry insights, and valuable tips.

Learn how our restaurant management solutions help your restaurant business keep costs under control.

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Transcript

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Hello, I'm Carl Jacobs, and I'm co founder and CEO of Apicbase. At Apicbase, we are building the world's best food and beverage management platform. But in this podcast series, it's all about finding answers on how to grow and scale your food service business. I'm talking to numerous experts and industry professionals who are passionate about building a healthy food service industry. Join me on this fascinating journey of entrepreneurship in food. So, Michael, welcome to the podcast. You're the director of franchising at Hans im Glück. Really keen on learning a lot about franchising today. But my first question to you is one that I ask any guest in my podcast, and it is can you quickly introduce yourself and what you've been doing in the past and what you've been doing actually before you became the director of franchising at Hans im Glück? All right, well, thanks for letting me be here. I'm really excited because I was looking at some of your episodes and I think it's quite awesome and I'm really glad to be here. So Thank you very much. thank you for the opportunity. To describe myself, I would say I'm a hospitality enthusiast who is really willing and able to conquer new challenges pretty much on a daily basis. And I think that's what describes me in not just my professional but also my private style. So that's pretty much me. Before I made the decision to come to Hans im Glück, I first off made an apprenticeship as a chef. So I'm a trained chef. So that's where I started my career basically. Why I did that is actually, I don't even know right? Out of the blue, no one in my family ever worked in hospitality business. There was no role model that I could follow or so, but I did that. And what everyone who worked ever in hospitality, who may also have an apprenticeship finally made in this perfectly fine hospitality field, learned it's quite a tough job. It is quite a tough job. It is stressful. It is hard work. You have to know and do a lot. You have to be able and willing to sacrifice your evenings, your weekends, you have to sacrifice family time and so on. So therefore, I think it's a specific kind of people that do and do love to do that job, and you can only do that if you're really kind of willing to do so. So you can't really force anyone to do that. And I think you need to be an enthusiast to be able to do that. So it started for me in this way and I'm really glad that I did this. Being a trained chef is in many ways something that describes also my style of working today, right. As a chef, you start even huge parties or huge events, you start off with having a plan, dividing this plan into small pieces that you can swallow in order to achieve a perfect or nearly perfect goal, which is for your guests having a great time, having great food. And I think mise-en-place, which is pretty much something I guess everyone knows, just refers to prepare your space, prepare everything you have in order to be able to present everything at a certain time, at a certain quality to the amount of people that were asked to come. And I think that kind of idea, that thinking and that kind of working and planning is something that stuck to me till the very day. All right, so how did your training as a chef influence your career? Well, basically, if you work as a chef or being trained as a chef, you start off having a big problem or a big task that you just divide in small pieces that you can just swallow, so to speak. And basically, you learn to make mise-en-place, which for all of those who don't know, that means just being prepared, right? So you prepare yourself in order to be able to manage what comes up. So the amount of people and the reservation or the big happening, whatever is on your task. And I think that's pretty much what I still do. So I try to focus on a task. Divide this task into small pieces or those ones you can swallow, bring them into a team, which means you barely do things by yourself or just alone. You're always in the team. And then you start off thinking, okay, how to divide this? Who could do this the best, and how to manage to do it just on time, which is also a very important thing and factor in this field. So that's pretty much what I still do every day. It's just the task. And the topics may be different, maybe a little bigger or more expensive, but basically it's just the same stuff. And I think the mindset is the most important thing about it. First off, being prepared, do your mise-en-place, secondly, just take any task, no matter how big, and divide it into small pieces or the size you need. And the third is you never can do it on your own and you need a team. So bring in those ones you can take and the team you need. And let's force our ideas to have the best way to conquer this goal. All right. And so today you are doing exactly that at Hans im Glück. For those who are not in Germany or in the german speaking region, could you quickly summarise what is Hans im Glück and what is the philosophy behind it and what makes it unique? Right. I will try to make it clear and short. It's not necessarily that you need to do it short, but clear is very welcome. All right. So Hans im Glück is basically a fairy tale. And this is, so to speak, somewhat of the basis and the root of the concept, if you will. Besides the iconic design, which is very very much I think unique and of course, great burgers and cocktails, you will find just a very cosy place where regardless of your dietary programme. So if you're vegan, vegetarian or just a carnivore, you will find something on our menu, right. And not just somewhat, but you will be really satisfied with that. And also, it just doesn't matter if you're having a dinner out with your girlfriend or your boyfriend or whomever, or if you're in a bunch of people having a great night and going out for having dinner or some drinks, you will always be welcomed. And welcomed means being welcomed. So we welcome you on the door, find your place, sit you down, and also you will have a serviced place. So it's not like many burger grills that are quick service. And you go there and kind of smell like fries if you leave it, which is by the way completely fine right. But it's just not what we do. But in our case, you have a multisensoric event that takes place for your eyes. So you have a beautiful design. It's warm, as you can see in my back. So pretty much the lighting is very very suitable to the very day, time of the day. You have great music, you have awesome design all around you, you have great food and that's pretty much it. So it's a huge event I think. You have great people. We have I think pretty much the best employees you can wish for. So great service and, well, in the end, you make it happen the way you wish, right? So you can go there, just have some drinks, you can go there, have entire meal, or you just go there to enjoy the time and have some coffee or whatever. So that's pretty much what I can tell about the concept. If you haven't seen it yet, you should go for it. I will certainly do when I'm in the German-speaking region. But when you talk about this, something pops into my head quickly, and that is by having this kind of concept, of course, you're pretty unique. I don't think there is many other burger joints that do it that way. But is there let's say a big risk of being even more in control of the people that you hire. Because of course this hospitality, this being welcomed, the guest being welcomed is, of course, it kind of defines the Hans im Glück concept. So you expose yourself very much to the people that are in contact. While in, let's say, a regular burger joint, you have people behind the counter, they give you the food and that's done. The transaction is very fast. How difficult is it to find the right people, especially in these times? I can imagine that's even much worse for you guys than for anybody else. Well, basically, it's both. It's easy and terribly difficult. First off, finding people is I think doable. Finding the right ones is difficult. And if you have the right ones, training them well and giving them a good feeling and providing them with a workplace that they enjoy, with an environment they can enjoy on a daily basis, that's I think, the biggest challenge. And that's what we do. As we said in the beginning, it just doesn't stop at the guest, right. So it's a people business and all the people need to be well, so they need to feel welcomed. They need to feel as part of something. And I think, of course, we always. There are others who also do that. There are others who maybe not on a service level like that, where you can just simply pass on food or drinks or whatever and you don't have to have this sort of contact with your people. But I think then you shouldn't really be in that kind of hospitality business. I mean, there's absolutely fine having quick service restaurants and I think that's absolutely good that they exist. And no offence there, but in terms of service level and service quality and service depth, I think it is a very challenging task to constantly train your employees, but also giving them a good sense of what they do it for and whom, and just thriving this feeling of being a host, because that's basically what they are in our case, right? So it's not me who is welcoming you at the door, but it's one of our team members and he or she needs to feel like it is mine, needs to feel like I do this for you because I want to do it, not because I'm forced to say something right. So we don't have a certain expression that you have to use every time you see a guest or something. It's just come as you are. So people are not dressed in a certain way, so our employees don't have to wear a certain uniform, at least not in service in the kitchen, of course, we have some sort of regularities, but other than that, if you feel like coming, jeans and t shirt, that's just what you do. And in the same fashion, I think you need to be the host that you are. So I think it's not convincible to someone that is welcome you in a robotic way, but it's more about having the feeling of doing it honestly. And that's I think what makes somewhat of a difference. And that is definitely difficult to find. But once you find them, it's even more difficult to keep them and give them the feeling that they really do that because they want to. Yes, it's difficult, but so far not convergence. You manage? We managed it. Yes, if I'm not mistaken, Hans im Glück is founded in 2010. So that's quite a rapid expansion. How many restaurants do you have today? Well first off you did your homework well, that's absolutely correct. Right now we are having 96 restaurants. All right. In Germany, Austria and Switzerland. All right. That's quite a rapid expansion. Basically it's 13 years, close to 100 restaurants. When did you join Hans im Glück? I joined Hans im Glück in July 2018. 2018. How many were then? How many outlets did you have at that moment? I wasn't prepared for that question. I don't want to lie. I think approximately somewhat of 80. All right, I think it's about 80. And you have then been in charge of the franchising business or the expansion business? No, I started off as a managing director for our company stores together with my dear colleague Bila at this time and we managed our, in these days it was 27 restaurants that we had company stores. And they are company owned. So that means you have, let's say They were. They were so now every store is franchised. No, still we have about 25% that are company restaurants. But in, let's say it was, I think, May 2021 of all, I changed from this company restaurants to my actual recent position. And then we also changed our strategy towards assetlight, which basically means reducing the amount of company restaurants and focusing much more on expanding by franchising, which is, I think a normal transition. Starting off as a hospitality business, running your first restaurant, realising, oh, that's successful, making a second, third, fourth and so on, and then you already start off doing that in franchising and then somewhat both channels grow and at a certain point I think it's necessary to focus on just one, primarily, not only, but just focus on one. And I think that's basically what's happening. In the meantime, there were well let's say some issues, like for example, Covid. That of course reduced the speed of our progress, but still we're quite happy with that. So it's an interesting story. And something that I wanted to ask you is 25% of the stores, that's somewhere around 25 I guess, is still in company hands, or let's say, owned by the company. The others are franchised. Can you tell us the strategy behind that? Why do you need still 25% company owned ones? Is this something you want to get down in the future, or is this something that you want to maintain at this 25%, which means that you have to grow that as well, if you grow the portfolio. What's the strategy? Well basically it's a good question. The strategy is growing via franchising. That's a very clear and easy thing. Also, we want to reduce the amount of company restaurants. And it may feel like we didn't reduce a lot, but in the meantime, we changed a lot of our own company restaurants to franchisees. But still, we don't want to maintain them. We want to change that, but in order to change that, you have to consider a lot of things. First off, they are running restaurants and running companies. Also, they provide some employees with work. So what we don't do is just throwing them out to whomever, and good luck to that. And yeah, have a good one and let's see if it works out. No, that just doesn't work. So we need to find the best partner possible who is not just able to do it as good as we do, but slightly better. Which is one answer also to your question. Why do we do franchising rather than growing with our own restaurants? We figured that our partners go the extra mile. So they are entrepreneurs who do what entrepreneurs do, right? So they go the extra mile because it's their business, because it's their money they work for. And even the best employees, and we have some of the best, I assure you, they may be not going exactly the last mile. They don't go to the mayor of this very country, very city, and ask for what can we do? How can we collaborate? They don't go to maybe any collection of other entrepreneurs and just develop some ideas how to proceed their businesses. They do a fantastic job on the site, but except that, not very much right. And having entrepreneurs, they do exactly that. And that's exactly the ones that we look for. So therefore, the process may look quite slow, but we have a really multilayer process in order to figure out if someone really fits to us, fits to the concept, but also to the restaurant. So the very location we're talking about. And even though it is the same brand everywhere and basically the same concept, the same restaurant, it is very, very different. You have restaurants that have a very different approach towards the market than others, even though they are the same brand. So if you are let's say in a cinema, right? So if you have a restaurant in a cinema, completely different story than if you are in a major city just in the middle of the shopping area. Can you elaborate on that? What do you mean with a completely different story? What is the difference? Yeah, basically in the cinema, for example so there are many different examples, but in that case, in a cinema, you have a certain people that go there. It's pretty much not tourists. So the people who go there, go there on a regular, they go there, they come back, let's say. So you have a different kind of bonding to your guests and you have to provide them with several changes every once in a while. You have to be more the face towards them. So it's more important to be a person, or let's say, to be impersonated the brand so more intimate relationship. Exactly. And whilst you are in a touristic area, people come in in huge amounts and the tables just, they turn through and you don't really have the opportunity to bond or to get closer to each other. And there you have to be a lot more in strategically and process focused development. So I think that's a huge difference and a huge difference towards the skill set of the operator and experience most probably, too. So therefore, I think it's always important that you have the right partner, the right operator on the correct facility. So that's pretty much what it is about. And therefore, we don't do this empty handed. We always go on a very very clear idea who is the right one for this position, who is the right one for this location, and then we kind of bring them together. And this kind of marriage if you will, is not just for existing restaurants, but also for new ones. So if we have a partner or a potential franchisee, we always do the same process, and then we figure out which location where, what's the abilities, what's the skill set, what's the opportunities, on the other hand? And then we try to bring them together. Yeah, that's a fantastic story. And there's so many questions popping up in my head. One of them is this difference between these locations. Does this also reflect on pricing? Or is a burger at Hans im Glück always the same price? Definitely differs because pricing is definitely the deal of our partners. So we are not able and willing, or even allowed to govern that. So we calculate in advance. So if we have a new menu, of course we calculate and describe several pricing, a range of prices that we deem to be right. We deem to be sufficient for both of us to live from that, right. But partners, if they decide not to follow that, I mean, that's basically what they can do. Unless it, of course, may not be as strongly diverting. So that you have like €100 for a burger, that's just not allowed, because you would kind of inflict the brand with the product. But that's just a certain thing. So there are guidelines, but there are no obligations. Exactly. You mentioned that it's not allowed to set a price. Yeah, because if different companies collaborate, and there's a certain word which I don't know the english expression for. In German it's price upsprach. So if everyone in different companies agrees on a certain pricing, what does it make to the market? That's just not allowed. All right. I don't know if that is the same for Belgium or many other European countries, but I assume so. Maybe it's all different. Yeah. No no, the concept of course for sure exists only we see, of course, in reality, we see quite often that the same burger in the same restaurant, even managed by different, let's say, corporates or different businesses, that they have the same price. Because maybe they. Just by accident. Yeah, no, it's just not accident. But keep in mind, if you basically have the same concept, so you have the same cost for your food and beverage, you have pretty much the same cost for labour. Everything is pretty much similar, at least in a certain way, then why should you have an extremely different pricing there? So I think there's just no real reason for that. So I think it's not just by accident, but of course, as we give some examples, we give some ideas of the pricing. You can follow them or not, but it's not like we did it the first time, the calculation, and it's all based on, of course, the knowledge of our 96 restaurants and their KPIs. So we definitely know What kind of pricing do you have to put out there in order to have a certain margin? Because, let's be clear, all these beautiful things, all the soft facts that are really necessary in our case, they don't mean nothing if there's no margin at all, because everyone has to live from something, right? And also our printers partners need to make a living from that. So basically that's important in my opinion. A little bit earlier in the conversation, you also mentioned that you want to reduce the company owned restaurants. Is the plan to reduce this to zero or do you of course over a long time, or do you need a few to kind of experiment and keep touch with the end customer yourself? Or is this not necessary? Well, you gave a perfect answer to your own question. Thank you very much. Last is of course true, because we will always need some idea of training, how to train and what to train. We need to experiment, as you say exactly. And we shall not be completely detached from our customers. So therefore, I think a reasonable amount of restaurants will always kind of be maintained in our own companies. And also, if you think about internationalisation, often the first restaurant is a company owned, because then you learn somewhat of the new market and you kind of take the first hit so to speak, and not your partner. So it always makes sense in a certain way. And every once in a while it happens that we open up a restaurant ourselves and not much later a partner comes and purchases this restaurant from us. And that just happened a couple of times already and it's not a very strategic way to do so, but every once in a while you have an opportunity and then you just take it right. And what comes later on in the long term is a completely different story. You're talking consistently about the word partner and not about a franchisee, you're talking about partners. What kind of partners are you looking for? Are they mainly like single outlet kind of partners or are you looking for groups that open up 15 restaurants in a certain period of time? Well, it just depends to be really honest. I mean, we have both. So we have everything in the range from having one restaurant to maybe eight and having developer, but also having single unit operators and just refers also to the skill set and to the person itself. So we have a wonderful partner and she's in the north of Germany and she's just happy with her restaurant and she doesn't really seem to want to have another one and that's fine. So she's satisfied with this one restaurant, she's living that and she's deliberately into this being a host, whereas we have others that thriving for growth and being bigger and having multiple units in order to grow, which is a completely different story and just always refers to the very person and the abilities and the fantasy as well. And so therefore, I think we need both and we should have also both, because that just grounds everyone. So the ones who are thriving just for growth need to also hear and listen to the struggles of the single unit operators. But also the deliberate laugh of being a host and being very sustainable in that and connected to your guest is something that the multiple unit operators can learn from. And that's why I think it's very important for us to have all of these partners in our group. And that just makes us very strong, because always listening to everyone at some point is something that makes us stronger as a brand. That's what I really believe in. Yeah. And let's say the partnership management becomes extremely important. How do you canalise, how do you streamline all of the concerns that are raised by partners? Let's say, because of course you have the concept. How far does that concept go? That's a question. And how far do you let the partner take over and who is in charge, basically? Well It's a lot of questions I have. Let me try to answer them one after the other. Basically, it's a partnership that means we have common goals that we're trying to go for both on our end so to speak, and that's growing and being successful, basically. So that's what combines us and what brings us together. So the connecting dot is basically the brand and its values. Right. Other than that, we don't really streamline that because you agree as a franchisee to a certain amount of rules and regulations, which means we provide you with the brand, we provide you with a concept, we provide you with a style of working things out and all of the things that are. It's a huge variety of expertise that you need in order to be. And that's something I guess all the listeners also know of your podcast. You need to know, from marketing to purchasing power, you need to know everything about it, right. And we provide them, our franchisees with all this knowledge. So we have a lot of experts here that each of them in their field provides our partners in our entire system with their knowledge and their success. So you as a partner can then focus definitely on the guest and being a great host, right. So therefore there's a lot of streamlining there already, which comes just out of the situation. But also we have a field agent and partnership that is really consulting. So they visit you every, I don't know, depending on how long you're in the system and so on, but you're constantly being visited and they are partners. So we talk to each other, we figure out how are you, how are you doing, how's the business? Do you have any struggles? Do you have anything in mind that we should consider? But also we take a close look on their KPIs and we can say, hey, there's another guy having exactly the same amount of revenue as you do, but less of labour cost. Let's talk together. What does he or she do different? And maybe you can learn from each other, right. So there are a lot of things that we do and constantly train our partners in order to have a better margin. Sorry, go on. And of course, when it comes to individual ideas, right so I think your question also was towards, so what am I allowed to do actually? Well, we have a menu and it's very important that if you go to a Hans im Glück, you will find the menu you expect. So therefore it wouldn't make sense if everyone had a different menu. But if you're really someone who says, hey, I have a great thing in mind, then we made some sort of a task force, for example, to create a new menu. And that one was released just I think, half a year ago or so. And that one, this task force was not just from the franchise aside, but both from franchisees and franchiser, and then they came together and found a way to collaborate on that. And all of those who wanted to work on that had the opportunity to do so, which in fact turned out for everyone to be a very, very good lesson, because most of the partners figured out that no matter what you do, you will always find someone unsatisfied and no matter what you do, you can't do the perfect thing. And I think that kind of collaboration and this kind of getting a goal together, I think bound us even closer to each other and also was a way for our partners to take a glance behind the carpet. So of course it's always difficult to exactly know what are the issues of my partner on the other side. But I think that kind of gave both of us a better view and vision of what the issues, the demands or even the wishes of our opposing partners are. Interesting. Imagine I want to be a Hans im Glück franchisee. What do I need to bring to the table? Maybe if you want to, even in terms of value and in terms of monetization of how much money do I need to bring to the table, I already learned I need to be an entrepreneur, so that's great. But what else? Well, first of all, we check the person. It's about cultural match. Are you someone we want to work together with, talk to each other, meet each other again and again and again? Maybe on a daily basis even, and that for a period of at least ten years. So are you that kind of person? And also are we that kind of person you want to work with. So it's not just a one way, it's not a one direction. So both sides have to decide if they are willing to do so. So it is the first thing. Cultural match, having the same values. And that's the first step. Of course, if that is checked this box, we continue. And check if you are a host by heart? Are you passionate about being a host? Are you passionate about hospitality business? But even if you're not a trained chef or something like that, but you are experienced in that field, or you are really willing to do so, we will find a way to get you there, right? So it's not that you really have to be trained in this hospitality business already. Of course it's an advantage because what you know, you know. But also we have partners that came from a different field, and then they started off working with us and for us, maybe for a year or two even, in order to get to know this. And after that, starting off having their own business. So second and third is, of course, about the money. How much do you have to bring to the table? Just depends on what kind of restaurant we are doing. If we're talking about a restaurant that maybe only has left, let's say, three years of contract, and then you need much less, of course, of money in order to maybe achieve that one and to operate that for the last three years of the contract, rather than if you talk about having or building a new restaurant, which, depending on where you built it and what it was before and how big and so on, is somewhat between 1.3 to €1.8 million. Okay. And then you need to bring to the table whatever your bank is telling you, right? So if they say 300k is fine for us, well, there you go. If they want more from you, that's also what, basically not us determining exactly the amount of money you need. It's much more the ability of being financed by someone or somewhat. Yeah, but let's say the franchise taker needs to bring somewhere around 1.2 million, and then it's his job or her job to find how much do they need to put privately and how much can they do through the bank? Is that what I hear? Well, no, basically, if your own money should be somewhere about 100 to 300k. That should be free cash, let's say. Okay, right. So that's definitely the amount you will need. I think it could be less in exceptions, but in a regular, you definitely need at least this amount. And then just it comes down to the financing bank. So if they tell you, okay, this is fine, for me. So you can get enough loan in order to build or construct an entire restaurant, which is about, let's say, 1.5 million. So that's completely fine. And, of course, we help you along this way. We support you along this way. We won't offer you any location that is, in our opinion, not giving your return on invest but still, you need to bring a certain amount of money in order to be able to construct a new restaurant of course Yes. Yes. And then how is the balance between Hans im Glück as a concept and then the entrepreneur on the other side? How is this divided? Is there kind of a fixed percentage that you take on each sale? How does that work? Yeah, it's pretty simple. We have a royalty of 9.5% of your revenue, and that's it. Okay. So plain and simple. That's it. All right. And with that 9.5%, you are maintaining the headquarters, and you are expanding into new markets. And also, you get the marketing, and you get all these skills, all this expertise, all these things. I mean, I could tell you about a half an hour now what our deliverables are, but basically, you get the right to use the brand. We are of course responsible of expanding the brand, protecting the brand, and so on and so on, bringing in the concept. So do you know how long do you need to roast the burger patty? No, you don't. We're going to tell you where to purchase it, how long to do this and that, and so on and so on. So product development in total is including and so on. So all this is on the plate. And you have one fee that you pay, and that's 9.5%. And as I said, marketing is completely included already. Yeah. And then let's move, then, into these headquarters. So how many people are working in the headquarters of Hans im Glück? Right now I think it's about 65. Okay. Don't nail me down to the single person. It's about 65. Okay. What's then let's say the positions that are within the headquarters. Do you have chefs that are creating the menu, things like that, or people like that, or what is let's say the division in the company? Well, I don't know all the backgrounds of everyone in total, but I can tell you, at least we have three chefs here, and one is the COO, one is the CEO, one is me. So that's at least the ones I know. 100%. We are chefs. We have a lot of people who made different things in the hospitality business. But also, as I already mentioned before, you have so much expertise that is required in order to construction, for example. So we have a great construction team In terms of marketing, so we have a huge and awesome marketing team not just operational but also strategic one. So it's just outstanding really. We have procurement and purchasing who are absolutely great as well. So pretty much you can pick any position that is necessary. So IT, well okay, as we flew out a couple of times today, maybe not the best reference, but still they are great guys and doing a great job in a new office. You have everyone, you have some obstacles in the beginning. Of course, the franchising team as well. Here we have controlling and so on. So all these different areas of every company you can imagine is required. And we have expertise in all these fields here. And these are then things that the entrepreneur doesn't need to hire because these people are actually given basically to you as an entrepreneur. That leaves you pretty much with of course entrepreneurial spirit and of course the willingness to go the extra mile to be a great host in the place you are, to be willing to do whatever is necessary, but still you don't have to have all this expertise. And I think that's basically why franchising is so viable for both sides. Because of course you need to be an expert in your field and it's always helpful to know a certain amount of things about a specific topic. But being an expert is a completely different story and I would never deem myself to be an expert in terms of marketing. Of course I know somewhat of it, but I'm not an expert. Neither am I an expert in terms of construction. I know somewhat of it again, but I'm not an expert. So therefore I think it is just absolutely great to have awesome experts in all our fields and you as a franchisee always can participate in that. And you already do. Once you start your own restaurant. You rely on so much expertise from others once you already start, but also on of course, trial and errors of all the others before you because that's pretty much also what is true. It's always a factor of collaborating, trying, failing and learning. Yeah. One more question about this partnership that you're offering. How is the supply chain organised? Is every partner responsible for their own supply chain or do they order centrally from a headquarter or how is that organised? Well, we have a central purchasing and you have, I think, three different major suppliers. Suppliers, thank you, that you pick from. And basically the one brings in the patties, the buns and fries and so on, and the other one brings drinks and so on. And then you have pretty much your own fruit and salad supplier. That is basically regionally different. But for most of the other things, like our sauces, for example, they are produced for us especially. So it is our recipes, so you couldn't even purchase them anywhere else. And that, of course, you can just purchase via this determined supplier. Michael, I have one last question for you. How is the future of hospitality looking? Oh, that's a good question. Well, I hope it's going to be colourful and vibrant and it's going to be so much more than just one or two or three brands, but also all this tiny and upcoming new brands and restaurants. And I really love to go into these stylish new restaurants and have a great time there. Also, I do like, of course, going to our own restaurants. So I hope, really, I do hope a lot that this is going to be a thriving and beautiful place where you can meet each other regardless of what you like or how you look or whom God you're going to pray for. And that's pretty much what I hope for is going to maintain. And then I hope it's going to be also, one thing that is really important, I think, is it should be much more appreciated. So all the people in our hospitality field working, loving and doing their services to each other, they should be, I think, a lot more appreciated, because as I said somewhere in our talk, it is a really exhausting job. It can be very very challenging and I think, smiling during stress, being a great person and a great host, even though you may be kind of tired and stressed out, that's quite a thing. And we should appreciate a lot more the people who would deliberately go and make their job there rather than sitting in an office and do their jobs there. That's a very nice end statement. I remember that hospitality needs to be colourful. Michael Oettl, thank you very much for this conversation and see you later. Thank you, Carl.